OK now for a perplexing question

[Penguin]

You presume (I will be kind) that ALL homo-sapiens evolved from only 1 other species.

You think the different races of humans evolved from different species? (And somehow, randomly, ended up similar enough to interbreed.)

Didn't say that. I said that all humans did not necessarily evolve simultaneously, or from the same individual predecessor.

Evolution, by it's very nature, means to change over time.

That's the problem, there's no evidence of those transitions and the species didn't appear slowly over time. Darwin was able to explain why we're not surrounded by living transitional species due to natural selection, but he had no explanation for their absence in the fossil record. ....and to this day no one else does either. They also have no explanation for the abruptness of their appearance.

I think that I was very clear on that issue as well. We currently do not have all of the answers. And that does not mean that it didn't happen that way, and certainly does not mean that it MUST have happened any other particular way.

Evolution proves that ....

Evolution doesn't prove anything, it is a theory that attempted to explain our observations of nature.

Evolution is decided science. The "Walking Whale" discovery in the 1990s ended all questions about that.

....all species are related if traced back far enough.

It is odd that you question that all races of human could have differentiated from a single pair of humans. Yet in the next paragraph you state that all forms of life are related if traced back far enough. Somehow humans from Sweden and Angola are too different to have a pair of common ancestors but a cow, oak tree, mullet and bacteria are all practically cousins who evolved from lumps of simple proteins that randomly formed in the primordial soup.

I certainly did not say that all humans evolved from a single pair of anything.

The fact that the specific gravity in your body (mine as well) matches with the specific gravity of sea water is the most telling fact of evolution.

Logical fallacy: Correlation is not causation. Lots of things have the same specific gravity, it is just a measure of density.

..... and again, I'm not a creationist, I'm not religious at all. I don't claim to have the answers, but I see lots of gaps and holes in the theory of evolution.

Other than seawater name 1 thing that has a specific gravity of 1.23

Darwin did indeed have a theory, as did Einstein. If I can stand and reach to approximately 8 feet high, and you lie flat underneath my hands, and I drop a 16 pound bowling ball onto your head, you would come to realize that although Gravity started as a Theory, it is all too real. The same applies to evolution. I do not claim to have the answers to the universe, but evolution is real, proven, even though, as you stated, it did start as a theory. Science works that way. Theories are brought forth, and evidence is sought to disprove them. So far, evolution has only been confirmed. And yes, Darwin did not fully understand the science of genetics, but he was smart enough to understand the changes that he witnessed. The discovery of the fossils of the "Walking Whale" put all doubts about evolution to bed.

Wrong. A single positive example does not prove a theory. The theory is not holding up. The transitional gaps remain. The time lines are wrong. Most species suddenly appeared in the Cambrian period and remain largely unchanged to this day.

So 99.99% proven doesn't make the grade for you. I am not trying to change your mind or alter your opinions, but Evolution is decided science by practically everyone in the scientific community. Evolution is light years ahead of any other possible explanation of human existence.

I do appreciate your responses, it allows me post mine without fear of reprisal. But..........I am a very patient man, and we have a myriad of really intelligent people on this website, and not a single one has been able to answer my question. You are doing a magnificent job of deflecting and trying to disprove something, but always remember that disproving "Theory A" is not the same thing as proving "Theory B".

[1 CAT FAN]

What is it that man is supposedly evolved from? Monkey, fish, tadpole?

My son got married to a mid-western girl after graduating college and moved to Ohio. That boy's accent has changed, he had a little tan before, Ohioans are the whitest people I've ever met. Must be the change in climate, visiting at Christmas is a pleasure and challenge at the same time, definite temperature drop there. Brrrrr! You can always identify native vehicles without looking at their license plate. Ohio has to have more salt on it's roads than Myrtle Beach ocean boulevard, safe to say my Camaro will not be driven there. One thing though, Ohioans are the nicest, most polite people. Cityslicker, you would absolutely love their customer service. Good people in Grove City, Ohio. A couple of them are Tiger as well as Buckeye fans.

[Penguin]

What is it that man is supposedly evolved from? Monkey, fish, tadpole?

The correct answer to that question is that all species that you mention, are part of the Evolutionary process. And we all presume that Homo Sapiens are the end result. What if we are only a step in that process? Evolution is not a single line process. Many branches and many other branches off of those branches, and so on and so on. Homo Sapiens are arguably only the tip of one branch. That is why I say that we are related to everything around us when traced back far enough. As to how did this all start, who knows. It has been shown that natural occurrences are capable of creating life forms.

Some intelligent people believe that Homo Sapiens are life forms that started on other planets and arrived here as alien beings. I am not in that club, however that is far more plausible than other unsubstantiated mythology.

In the grand scheme of things, the lifespan of the Homo Sapien is very short. I am in the group referred to as Atheists, not because I am against others having the right to harbor their own beliefs, but because I choose to live my life based upon personal choice, critical thought, and most importantly, having an open mind to reality, as opposed to mythology. When someone proves me wrong, I am open to change. I refuse to have my life controlled, judged, and manipulated, by the whims of others. But I respect the rights of everyone else to do the same, choose their own belief. I don't have to be right, need to be right, or follow someone who professes to be right. When I go to sleep at night, my only answers are directed to my conscious. I try to live my life according to what I feel is right. I seldom give up that process. I have close friends who are Creationists, and we have zero conflicts because we never try to influence each other's beliefs. Respect is something that this society today is greatly lacking. The color of one's skin, the clothes that they wear, the causes that they support, the hairstyle that they choose, nor any other external traits, have any bearing on the character that is inside. Try and see what is in another person's heart and you will surely have a much more pleasant and enjoyable life. A good person is a good person. Community pressure, the need to be part of a group, the need to be led, none of that is necessary to survive and lead a happy life. You would be surprised at what you can learn from someone different as opposed to someone just like you. Communication and respect. Those 2 traits will guide you safely and securely down whatever path in life that you choose. Be true to yourself........the part of you that lives down deep inside of you. That voice inside of you that gives you the answer to everything. Not any external voices that are trying to control you. That is happiness and the key to self awareness.

It is far more important to understand where we are going than to dwell on how we got here. History cannot be changed, but the future can surely be molded. Be happy, be aware, and try to be able to communicate with those with which you disagree. You might learn something along the way, and you may also teach something too. This country is at a tipping point right now. Political division is driving racial division, Religious division, ethnic division, gender division, and even age division. You cannot turn on any source of information without someone being there trying to convince you that you belong in their group and you should hate those in other groups. As Americans, we, the people, need to stand up and take control of these things and try and create a group that has it's doors open to everyone. Politicians hate that idea. Think for yourself, stop listening to those who are trying to divide us. If a Clemson fan can marry a South Carolina fan, then anything is possible. Yes, we are all different in many ways, but we are all on the same team when it comes to the important things in life. There is not 1 single person on this site, that I would not help if asked, and I was able. That is my personality and it has provided me with a very happy life and a very optimistic view of my fellow man. I sincerely hope that anyone who reads this will at least consider opening their minds to try and find a similar outlook. There is no place for hatred in life. Respect, Accept, and Communicate. Sorry to carry on, just things that came to me while responding. Peace brothers.

[cavaliereagle]

What is it that man is supposedly evolved from? Monkey, fish, tadpole?

The correct answer to that question is that all species that you mention, are part of the Evolutionary process. And we all presume that Homo Sapiens are the end result. What if we are only a step in that process? Evolution is not a single line process. Many branches and many other branches off of those branches, and so on and so on. Homo Sapiens are arguably only the tip of one branch. That is why I say that we are related to everything around us when traced back far enough. As to how did this all start, who knows. It has been shown that natural occurrences are capable of creating life forms.

Some intelligent people believe that Homo Sapiens are life forms that started on other planets and arrived here as alien beings. I am not in that club, however that is far more plausible than other unsubstantiated mythology.

In the grand scheme of things, the lifespan of the Homo Sapien is very short. I am in the group referred to as Atheists, not because I am against others having the right to harbor their own beliefs, but because I choose to live my life based upon personal choice, critical thought, and most importantly, having an open mind to reality, as opposed to mythology. When someone proves me wrong, I am open to change. I refuse to have my life controlled, judged, and manipulated, by the whims of others. But I respect the rights of everyone else to do the same, choose their own belief. I don't have to be right, need to be right, or follow someone who professes to be right. When I go to sleep at night, my only answers are directed to my conscious. I try to live my life according to what I feel is right. I seldom give up that process. I have close friends who are Creationists, and we have zero conflicts because we never try to influence each other's beliefs. Respect is something that this society today is greatly lacking. The color of one's skin, the clothes that they wear, the causes that they support, the hairstyle that they choose, nor any other external traits, have any bearing on the character that is inside. Try and see what is in another person's heart and you will surely have a much more pleasant and enjoyable life. A good person is a good person. Community pressure, the need to be part of a group, the need to be led, none of that is necessary to survive and lead a happy life. You would be surprised at what you can learn from someone different as opposed to someone just like you. Communication and respect. Those 2 traits will guide you safely and securely down whatever path in life that you choose. Be true to yourself........the part of you that lives down deep inside of you. That voice inside of you that gives you the answer to everything. Not any external voices that are trying to control you. That is happiness and the key to self awareness.

It is far more important to understand where we are going than to dwell on how we got here. History cannot be changed, but the future can surely be molded. Be happy, be aware, and try to be able to communicate with those with which you disagree. You might learn something along the way, and you may also teach something too. This country is at a tipping point right now. Political division is driving racial division, Religious division, ethnic division, gender division, and even age division. You cannot turn on any source of information without someone being there trying to convince you that you belong in their group and you should hate those in other groups. As Americans, we, the people, need to stand up and take control of these things and try and create a group that has it's doors open to everyone. Politicians hate that idea. Think for yourself, stop listening to those who are trying to divide us. If a Clemson fan can marry a South Carolina fan, then anything is possible. Yes, we are all different in many ways, but we are all on the same team when it comes to the important things in life. There is not 1 single person on this site, that I would not help if asked, and I was able. That is my personality and it has provided me with a very happy life and a very optimistic view of my fellow man. I sincerely hope that anyone who reads this will at least consider opening their minds to try and find a similar outlook. There is no place for hatred in life. Respect, Accept, and Communicate. Sorry to carry on, just things that came to me while responding. Peace brothers.

Very well stated sir! Have you looked into my mind? That explains my feelings better than I can myself! I do very much enjoy hearing differing opinions!

[1 CAT FAN]

Mr. Penguin, you sound like a fellow with a good heart, I can appreciate that. You're right it's a shame that all of mankind cannot get along without slaughtering one another. Sad that human beings feel the need to inflict their will on others, no one group is superior to another. That ole' devil is crafty in deceiving and influencing some that they are. My son and I were talking about some of the conflicts in our country recently, I told him that when Jesus went up on that cross to die for our sins, he didn't pick a color.

Mr. Penguin, I understand that it's difficult for you to believe in something that you can't physically see or touch, as a young boy without experiencing God granting me a miracle, I probably would be skeptical of his existence. I wish everyone could experience God's presence that I felt that day.

Revelation 4:11 “You are worthy, O Lord, To receive glory and honor and power; For You created all things, And by Your will they exist and were created.”

I asked God to take away my pride,
And God said “NO”
He said it was not for him to take away
But for me to give up.

I asked God to make my disabled child whole,
And God said “NO”
He said her spirit is whole
Her body is only temporary.

I asked God to grant me patience,
And God said “NO”
He said that patience is a byproduct of tribulation,
It isn’t granted, it is earned.

I asked God to give me happiness,
And God said “NO”
He said He gives blessings,
Happiness is up to me.

I asked God to spare me pain,
And God said “NO”
He said, “Suffering draws you apart
from worldly cares and
brings you closer to me.

I asked God to make my spirit grow
And God said “No”
He said I must grow on my own,
But he will prune me to make me fruitful.

I asked God to help me love others as much as He loves me,
And God said, “Ah, finally you have the idea.”

[Rebel-Fan-74]

But I respect the rights of everyone else to do the same, choose their own belief.

Oh you do, huh? This doesn't sound like respect to me.... just sayin

Please provide proof of any of that drivel. I mean factual proof, not a children's fairy tale from some big book of lies. Got some questions for you about that crapola.

It is very easy for some to say that everything that they cannot understand, or comprehend, MUST be gawd. Nothing could be further from the truth.

And I don't agree with these statements, I think they take more "faith" than the crapola:

E-V-O-L-U-T-I-O-N. There is no other answer supported by facts.
but evolution is real, proven, <==== I specifically do not agree with PROVEN
The discovery of the fossils of the "Walking Whale" put all doubts about evolution to bed.
Evolution is decided science by practically everyone in the scientific community. Evolution is light years ahead of any other possible explanation of human existence.

There are multiple holes in the evolution theory and not all in the scientific community agree with Darwin.

The answer to who was white and who was black from me would come from the "big book of lies" so you would dismiss it immediately. I don't have all the answers, I don't have hardly any answers; however, for me the answer is clear. As I mentioned before, the key to believing in a Divine Creator is faith. Faith is not scientific, its not like math, it is a belief in a spiritual being that is superior to my own understanding.

Normally, I don't enter these discussions here because you and I have had these discussions privately and we both understood and agreed that we are on opposite sides of the discussion here on this topic and for the most part on politics as well. I just wanted to weigh in and then see how things went from there. I'll add one more statement, and then leave it there....

I'm not mad at Penguin, I'm not upset, and none of you should be either. We all have the opportunity to believe in anything or any one that we choose. Personally, I feel about some "RELIGIONS" the way Penguin feels about all religions. If you are honest with yourself, you have to admit that you feel the same way. If you are Catholic, then you probably don't think much of those Holy Roller Baptists and vice versa. I'm not a RELIGIOUS person, I am a man who believes in the Bible and the teachings of Jesus. So in reality, I'm not that different from Penguin. The only difference is in whom we believe in.

[Penguin]

But I respect the rights of everyone else to do the same, choose their own belief.

Oh you do, huh? This doesn't sound like respect to me.... just sayin

Please provide proof of any of that drivel. I mean factual proof, not a children's fairy tale from some big book of lies. Got some questions for you about that crapola.

It is very easy for some to say that everything that they cannot understand, or comprehend, MUST be gawd. Nothing could be further from the truth.

And I don't agree with these statements, I think they take more "faith" than the crapola:

E-V-O-L-U-T-I-O-N. There is no other answer supported by facts.
but evolution is real, proven, <==== I specifically do not agree with PROVEN
The discovery of the fossils of the "Walking Whale" put all doubts about evolution to bed.
Evolution is decided science by practically everyone in the scientific community. Evolution is light years ahead of any other possible explanation of human existence.

There are multiple holes in the evolution theory and not all in the scientific community agree with Darwin.

The answer to who was white and who was black from me would come from the "big book of lies" so you would dismiss it immediately. I don't have all the answers, I don't have hardly any answers; however, for me the answer is clear. As I mentioned before, the key to believing in a Divine Creator is faith. Faith is not scientific, its not like math, it is a belief in a spiritual being that is superior to my own understanding.

Normally, I don't enter these discussions here because you and I have had these discussions privately and we both understood and agreed that we are on opposite sides of the discussion here on this topic and for the most part on politics as well. I just wanted to weigh in and then see how things went from there. I'll add one more statement, and then leave it there....

I'm not mad at Penguin, I'm not upset, and none of you should be either. We all have the opportunity to believe in anything or any one that we choose. Personally, I feel about some "RELIGIONS" the way Penguin feels about all religions. If you are honest with yourself, you have to admit that you feel the same way. If you are Catholic, then you probably don't think much of those Holy Roller Baptists and vice versa. I'm not a RELIGIOUS person, I am a man who believes in the Bible and the teachings of Jesus. So in reality, I'm not that different from Penguin. The only difference is in whom we believe in.

This will be my last post on this topic. I have tried to be courteous and respectful of others. I remain that way and do appreciate a healthy discussion of differing opinions. Ken, I took your post directed at me about how you consider that you answered my question, as an insult to my intelligence. That is why you got a snarky response. You no more answered my question than my dog did, and I don't have a dog. I know you well enough to say that I have no intention of disrespecting you, now, or ever. I consider you to be one of those very intelligent people on this website. I appreciate all that you bring to the table, and I respect you as the man that you are. But please understand this, I have an enormous disdain for organized Religion, as I see it as the number one evil in the world. I know that I am probably the only person on this site willing to openly say that, and I full well expect the responses from people that I get. Just because I choose to be different, not follow the crowd, and am 100% as entrenched in my beliefs as anyone here. I have never attempted to change anyone else's mind, just try to get others to look at things from a different perspective before jumping to conclusions.

It is a very tricky path to follow when having these discussions, as most people take it as a personal insult when you feel the way that I feel about Organized Religion. Up to now, I haven't seen anyone refer to their Creationist belief as their "personal faith". I can admire that person. Any person who can live their life according to their own faith as opposed to living their life according to what an outside influence tells them to believe, is the kind of person that I would want in a foxhole with me. Someone confident enough, educated enough, and committed enough, to put in ALL of the hard work and effort to learn and understand what they believe. It is the presence of those with an ulterior motive that turn my stomach when talking about organized Religion. Again, I am not trying to make anyone uncomfortable, change anyone's mind, just hopefully help you to understand where it is that I am coming from on this topic.

There used to be a man on PFT from Conway, SC who had the screen name of KROCK. His name was Kevin Childs. He was a JV coach at Conway, and he was a minister of his own church. He and I became very close friends over time. He attended Wofford, as did I. We spent weekends together at the Beach and discussed Religion quite a bit. I even attended a couple of his services. I asked him why he sought me out, and his answer was so that he could further educate himself by learning how those with differing beliefs thought about, and approached things in life. I actually had several very lengthy conversations with him when my younger brother passed away. He helped me immensely. He never tried to change my mind about how I felt, he only was curious about how I saw certain things. He also educated me about some things. My point is this, being different, holding different beliefs, does not preclude anyone from being friends, showing respect, and trying to be a better person.

For everyone who chose to participate in this thread, I say a respectful "Thank You" for taking the time and making the effort, to listen, to teach, and to learn. Hopefully we can all have and show more respect for each other and not have to feel uncomfortable or offended by every word said. I know that PFT got waaaay out of hand and turned a bunch of people off. This site has done a very good job of moderating those kinds of things. Football is fun and we are all here because of that fact. Good hearted ribbing is to be expected. Please do not mistake that for disrespect or a personal insult. As I said in another post, there is not a single one of you that I wouldn't help in a second, if asked and I was able. All of my neighbors would attest to that. Knowing where we all stand on this topic, knowing that everyone here has there own reason for their beliefs, and knowing that we are all in this place because of that, let's all please put this to bed, call it all talked out, and hopefully move on to another great season of Football. Thanks.........Alan

[DeCav]

Curious to see if Andy Griffith can get censored on this site...





You guys remember way back when Jerry Clower made a joke about mispronouncing “Yosemite” as “Yo-Suh-Might”??

[DeCav]

"Pinky, people are a non newtonian fluid. They’ll stiffen up and feel rightly assaulted. I propose we don’t need to turn this discussion into a debate on faith."

Oh yes, I understand that people would much rather be made a fool than to admit to looking like one. I am curious as to why you chose to single me out for my response to a topic started by someone else. I seldom start arguments about religion, but I never shy away from one, and I am really, really, good, at ending them. And like some of the greatest minds in history, Carlin, Einstein, Hitchens, Darwin, Maher, I am more than willing to entertain any debate about the fallacies of religion. When I am asked to take a leap of "faith", I choose to keep my feet on solid arguments and proven facts. I am not here to try to change anyone's mind, I am here to try to open them up. I always start with questions that lead to answers, not start with answers that lead to questions.

Wasn’t really singling you out. Sorry if I came off that way. I guess it seemed up to that point that the discussion was basically what each person’s dad looked like rather than which one was tallest if that makes sense.

[DeCav]

Sure CatFan. I actually put friendship first. How do I justify that over my family? Cause my family are the friends I have that scientifically share my DNA. And my best friends are the family I have that don’t share my DNA.

My faith? Evangelical Christians are Thelma and Louising the church and its credibility off a cliff. Had another popular poster say “Hell we all know Trump ain’t Christian! But I’m making more money than ever.” He says he put God and Jesus before country also. But not apparently before the almighty $$$.

Peace CatFan I’ll check my pm. Glad you witnessed for Warpaint! We all need to follow Christ’s example. How about instead of a Glock you let me know where I can hook up with a dependable mule (coulda went with ass or donkey but not floating softballs over the plate for you comedians.) My car is low on gas.

Hey, I purchased this (mule) a few months ago. Oops! Mustang reference, although mustangs are cool too.
My 7 year old grandson came for a visit from Ohio, gave him a ride in it. Asked how he liked it? He said, I didn't like it, I love it! The 5 year old sassy granddaughter said it's really, really fast! The retro look brings back memories of the 69' Camaro I owned many years ago. Old habits are hard to break, just love the muscle car era. Cruising the boulevard on weekends, socializing with friends.
You're a good friend Decav.

Same to you bro!
We gots to get a car site started! Hell, me and 1st and Goal met to talk about doin a car show. We can still do that btw.

Lord if I ignore SLICK any longer she gonna lose her mind.
Howdy SLICKY.