OK now for a perplexing question

[DeCav]

But I respect the rights of everyone else to do the same, choose their own belief.

Oh you do, huh? This doesn't sound like respect to me.... just sayin

Please provide proof of any of that drivel. I mean factual proof, not a children's fairy tale from some big book of lies. Got some questions for you about that crapola.

It is very easy for some to say that everything that they cannot understand, or comprehend, MUST be gawd. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Uhhh yeah...just calling balls and strikes here but I’m with Ken there.

There’s no question you’re able to be respectful and articulate. But to claim you are always respectful is a bit of a reach. Perhaps you mean your open mind has allowed you to evolve on that point.

Lawd knows I don’t get the same amount of texts about you anymore...lol!

You can definitely quote Dr. Johnny Fever, “I’m getting better.”

I notice you aren’t as inclined to make up school names as much which a few of us applaud. I try not to show disrespect unless it’s in the form of a mirror.

[DeCav]

Aw crap I was just about to start another post but Alan asked to end it.

My summation?

Certain people have been nudged in the last few years on the subject of kneeling as near as I can tell. Seems the consensus now is it should be up to the individual player all peripheral feelings aside. I can’t say it was that way 4 years ago.

If I ever seem like I’m picking it’s because as far as I can tell I tend mirror the other’s protocols? Basically, if it seems I’m making a pointed remark at anyone it’s because I’m under the impression that they’re mindful thinkers, tough skinned, and can take it. You can tell when I’m walking on eggshells with an individual. Usually means I don’t know ‘em that well or I know them and that they’re easily triggered.

I’m very impressed with any nuanced beliefs like SFBandDad’s. To be critical and pointed about evolution but not falling back on creationism is a position I respect. Sounds like he isn’t dug in either way. I like my trees a bit mobile.

I could quote the two examples but I’m running late....

Seems like in an earlier post Penguin claimed to be very open minded and subject to changing it if an argument is compelling enough. In a later post I swear he mentioned being 100% dug into his beliefs. Either he’s contradicting himself, someone has been incredibly persuasive, or someone has been woefully un-persuasive. Actually to answer for him, certain things he knows that he knows that he knows and other things he might be open to suggesting.

It’s refreshing to have a faith based conversation. Never really knew what it was like to be in a minority. But as a non-believer there’s a tiny sense. Again I usually just pretend I’m in Rome so to speak. Sometimes I even like to muse with Christians about faith and see what wisdoms I can tease out. To be sure Christopher Hitchens has said on many occasions The Bible is one of his two favorite works of literature, especially the King James version he grew up on.

It’s been interesting to read everyone’s interpretations on Faith and Science. I’ve learned some new things from both camps. Also made some mental notes of some gaps I could fill in.

Ken, if you describe the Big Bang as two atoms colliding...ummm...how do I say this?

Maybe read up on it? To my limited knowledge there were no such things as atoms before or even immediately after the Big Bang (according to the best theories we have).

Most fascinating part in this latter discussion is not how different Faith and Science are but how similar they are...

Both specify that there was an abrupt beginning to all of creation and considering sound doesn’t travel in a vacuum, the Big Bang can literally be summed up as “Let there be light!” (Except that this version I have says before there was light “earth was a shapeless void, a chaotic mass...of dark vapors”...I would amend that to say that what would become the Earth was...etc.) Anyway, let that rabbit run. Point being science say sht happened very suddenly and The Bible says sht happened very suddenly (if you count 6 days as sudden)

Also interestingly enough, Neither the church nor science will abide any questions about what happened before our universe. Science is quite pointed on that and as far as the Church?

One theological scholar asked his priest once, “What was God doing before he created the universe?”

“Preparing Hell for those who asked that question.”

I gotta run.

Peace and Love!

[Penguin]

I notice you aren’t as inclined to make up school names as much which a few of us applaud. I try not to show disrespect unless it’s in the form of a mirror.

It seems to me that most everyone here has a gimmick or twist to their style. Some people like SLICK AND BEF feel the need to shout at everyone about everything. Others purposely misspell almost every word posted. My choice to be unique, is to make sport of School names. Another prime example of my twisted sense of humor that is more about my character than about anything else.

While I was young, and at home with my mother and father, along with my 2 brothers, we all chose our favorite teams, our favorite, drivers, our favorite schools, etc. It was a very competitive environment, and that is where all of the making up names started. Actually, Larry, my now deceased younger brother, started it all with us. I was a Baltimore Colts/Johnny Unitas fan. He was a Dallas Cowboys/Don Meredith fan. My dad was a Green Bay Packers/Bart Starr fan. One evening while sitting at the dinner table, we were talking about the games coming up that week, and he looked at my dad and asked him if his Fudge Packers were going to beat the Clowns (Cleveland) this week. As the immortal Paul Harvey always said, "Now you know the rest of the story." It was all harmless fun for us, and a character trait that started in my informative days of youth. In all actuality, you guys should consider my nicknames as a badge of honor. It means that I have been looking at your team or thinking about your team, not ignoring them. And while I am thinking about this.........why just name me, when SLICKER has never spoken about Beaufort High, it is always BUFART or BOOFART, or something else silly? And Newcat is also guilty. As usual, I have to be the one to blame. LOL. I even do that on my pick-ems. That is my "thing" and I don't even really think about that when I am posting. Just what pops into my head when I am on a particular topic. First thing that I think about. I have been that way for more than 50 years now. Would be very hard to change that now. But all of that stuff isn't about you or anyone else, it is about me. Just laugh at me or with me. It is all in fun.

[DeCav]

Ok!

Yes! Context makes sense now. The difference though is that the Fudge Packers against the Clowns is funny.

I kid! I kid!

I’ll look at the names in a different light now. While we’re at it maybe we can settle on some official misspellings.

I always thought Doormat was a good one. Boreman or Snoreman would work also.

[1 CAT FAN]

Insightful commentary from Paul Harvey.

“If I were the prince of darkness, I would want to engulf the whole world in darkness. I’d have a third of its real estate and four-fifths of its population, but I would not be happy until I had seized the ripest apple on the tree — thee. So, I would set about however necessary to take over the United States.

“I’d subvert the churches first, and I would begin with a campaign of whispers. With the wisdom of a serpent, I would whisper to you as I whispered to Eve: ‘Do as you please.’

“To the young, I would whisper that the Bible is a myth. I would convince the children that man created God instead of the other way around. I’d confide that what’s bad is good and what’s good is square. And the old, I would teach to pray after me, ‘Our Father, which art in Washington ...’

“Then, I’d get organized, I’d educate authors in how to make lurid literature exciting so that anything else would appear dull and uninteresting. I’d peddle narcotics to whom I could. I’d sell alcohol to ladies and gentlemen of distinction. I’d tranquilize the rest with pills.

“If I were the devil, I’d soon have families at war with themselves, churches at war with themselves and nations at war with themselves until each, in its turn, was consumed. And with promises of higher ratings, I’d have mesmerizing media fanning the flames.

“If I were the devil, I would encourage schools to refine young intellect but neglect to discipline emotions. I’d tell teachers to let those students run wild. And before you knew it, you’d have drug-sniffing dogs and metal detectors at every schoolhouse door. With a decade, I’d have prisons overflowing and judges promoting pornography. Soon, I would evict God from the courthouse and the schoolhouse and then from the houses of Congress. In his own churches, I would substitute psychology for religion and deify science. I’d lure priests and pastors into misusing boys and girls and church money.

“If I were the devil, I’d take from those who have and give to those who wanted until I had killed the incentive of the ambitious. What’ll you bet I couldn’t get whole states to promote gambling as the way to get rich?

“I’d convince the young that marriage is old-fashioned, that swinging is more fun and that what you see on television is the way to be. And thus, I could undress you in public and lure you into bed with diseases for which there are no cures.

“In other words, if I were the devil, I’d just keep right on doing what he’s doing.”

Reflections of our Nation today? It's like Paul Harvey could see our Nation's trend today back in the 1960's, over 50 years ago.

Listened to his radio broadcast from time to time. Wise man.

1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

[bringthewood]

Did anyone watch the Gillette video?

Can someone summarize it?

Can you watch this one?
https://subspla.sh/sszbzg6

I've watched them both and many other explanations along the like. Most explanations along the like are about what faith is NOT like. Gillette is just saying he respects someone who is on the opposite side and not crossing his boundaries.

I'm no missionary, just barely a Christian. I can't tell you what your faith will be like, only what mine is.

When it comes to salvation, it is simple. God has a gift in his open hand reaching out to you and you can accept it or reject it. Nothing else. This is the free will of God's plan for you. He is a loving Father with a no frills gift, and you can take it or reject it; the choice is yours.

There is huge difference between 'the church' and 'your faith'. The church is an institution. Your faith is the relationship you have with God.

There is not more pure and beautiful thing than faith. You aren't coerced into it, you aren't forced into it; you simply step in and choose it. You don't need a priest, pastor, or preacher. You don't need a building, pew, or alter. You don't need a Bible, catechism, or brochure. You only need 2 things:
1- Repent of your sins
2 - Accept God's son Jesus' life and death as your Lord and Savior

I can't talk you into it; I can't talk you out of it. You have to choose or reject it. Which ever way you fall, the Gift is always there.

Do tell. Please provide proof of any of that drivel. I mean factual proof, not a children's fairy tale from some big book of lies. Got some questions for you about that crapola. Bet you don't have any answers. I'm your Huckleberry.

@penguin this post wasn't directed at you specifically, but apparently it touched you. I'm glad that it did.

We've been through this on the other board. We've bounced around these questions you've got. Again, just as I told @decav ; I can't talk you into accepting the gift and I can't talk you out of accepting it. That is the beauty of God's free will.

You can ask away. I'm no theologian and don't proclaim to be. I just have a loving relationship with my Lord and Savior, and through Him I've grown closer to God.

I'll be sure to pray for you. God, please bless the penguin.

I will lob this first one to you. Since you are a devout believer in intelligent design, and therefor a disbeliever in Darwin's Theory of Evolution, please tell us all which one, Adam or Eve, was black? Which one was white? Which one was Asian? Which one was Native Indian? Which one was Japanese? Which one was Hispanic? There were only 2 of them, and they had 3 sons. Are we all bastards? Are we all the product of incest? Please don't try to wrangle around an answer. You either are a student of Darwin, or you aren't. Can't be both. Either man as we know him today is a product of evolution, or a product of your imagination. I started with an easy one. And I have oh so many more. I will be curious as to how you find a way through that minefield.

I do not know. Neither you nor Darwin does (did) either. You are attempting to build a rather convoluted straw man.

Are you asking about species differentiation and adaptation, or are you asking about creation?

[bringthewood]

And @penguin, while I haven't been able to reply to your query in timely fashion; do know that I pray for you daily.

[bringthewood]

E-V-O-L-U-T-I-O-N. There is no other answer supported by facts.

Those are different races not different species. From a genetic perspective there is almost no difference from one race to the next. Differentiation within a species is easily explained when populations are physically separated by geologic features for long periods of time. Think of all the horse and dog breeds man has created in a few hundred years just by selective breeding.

Differentiation of traits due to isolation and local conditions is not evolution. Those differences quickly vanish within a few generations once the populations mix. Butterflies changing color or dogs changing size over time does not impress. If you want to impress us, provide some transitional proof of a butterfly evolving into a cocker spaniel. That would be impressive.


But seriously.....

You presume (I will be kind) that ALL homo-sapiens evolved from only 1 other species. Evolution, by it's very nature, means to change over time. Evolution proves that all species are related if traced back far enough. The fact that the #1 specific gravity in your body (mine as well) matches with the specific gravity of sea water is the most telling fact of evolution.

Darwin did indeed have a theory, as did Einstein. If I can stand and reach to approximately 8 feet high, and you lie flat underneath my hands, and I drop a 16 pound bowling ball onto your head, you would come to realize that although #2 Gravity started as a Theory, it is all too real. The same applies to evolution. I do not claim to have the answers to the universe, but evolution is real, proven, even though, as you stated, it did start as a theory. Science works that way. Theories are brought forth, and evidence is sought to disprove them. So far, evolution has only been confirmed. And yes, Darwin did not fully understand the science of genetics, but he was smart enough to understand the changes that he witnessed. The discovery of the fossils of the "Walking Whale" put all doubts about evolution to bed.

However, I have stepped up to the plate and made solid contact with every question put towards me. I asked the original question, and not a single answer has been forthcoming, only more questions for me. I am still awaiting ANY factual based answer to my question. You can try and poke holes in whatever I say, fine, but at least I have an informed answer that does not rely on magic and mystical powers. But I am a patient man.........I shall continue to wait. And further, I have no desire to change anyone's mind about anything, just open their minds up to the fact that more than one possibility exists. And by asking questions to reach a conclusion, provides far more intelligent discussion than by starting with a conclusion and making up questions to prove it. Likewise, proving #3 "Theory A" wrong, does not equate to making "Theory B" right. Each Theory must stand on it's own merits. And surely, we are not going to solve the mysteries of the universe here on this website. But, as a good friend of mine has pointed out several times to me, there are some really smart people on this site. And just because everyone doesn't view things through the same prism, doesn't change that fact.

apologies if this has been addressed in the following pages:
1-the specific gravity of water is the same whether it is in a glass, a sausage, a dog, a pond, or anything else; water is water
2-gravity is not a theory. there are three LAWS of gravity
3-quite true; Darwin's ideas are still just a theory

[bringthewood]

But I respect the rights of everyone else to do the same, choose their own belief.

Oh you do, huh? This doesn't sound like respect to me.... just sayin

Please provide proof of any of that drivel. I mean factual proof, not a children's fairy tale from some big book of lies. Got some questions for you about that crapola.

It is very easy for some to say that everything that they cannot understand, or comprehend, MUST be gawd. Nothing could be further from the truth.

And I don't agree with these statements, I think they take more "faith" than the crapola:

E-V-O-L-U-T-I-O-N. There is no other answer supported by facts.
but evolution is real, proven, <==== I specifically do not agree with PROVEN
The discovery of the fossils of the "Walking Whale" put all doubts about evolution to bed.
Evolution is decided science by practically everyone in the scientific community. Evolution is light years ahead of any other possible explanation of human existence.

There are multiple holes in the evolution theory and not all in the scientific community agree with Darwin.

The answer to who was white and who was black from me would come from the "big book of lies" so you would dismiss it immediately. I don't have all the answers, I don't have hardly any answers; however, for me the answer is clear. As I mentioned before, the key to believing in a Divine Creator is faith. Faith is not scientific, its not like math, it is a belief in a spiritual being that is superior to my own understanding.

Normally, I don't enter these discussions here because you and I have had these discussions privately and we both understood and agreed that we are on opposite sides of the discussion here on this topic and for the most part on politics as well. I just wanted to weigh in and then see how things went from there. I'll add one more statement, and then leave it there....

I'm not mad at Penguin, I'm not upset, and none of you should be either. We all have the opportunity to believe in anything or any one that we choose. Personally, I feel about some "RELIGIONS" the way Penguin feels about all religions. If you are honest with yourself, you have to admit that you feel the same way. If you are Catholic, then you probably don't think much of those Holy Roller Baptists and vice versa. I'm not a RELIGIOUS person, I am a man who believes in the Bible and the teachings of Jesus. So in reality, I'm not that different from Penguin. The only difference is in whom we believe in.

This will be my last post on this topic. I have tried to be courteous and respectful of others. I remain that way and do appreciate a healthy discussion of differing opinions. Ken, I took your post directed at me about how you consider that you answered my question, as an insult to my intelligence. That is why you got a snarky response. You no more answered my question than my dog did, and I don't have a dog. I know you well enough to say that I have no intention of disrespecting you, now, or ever. I consider you to be one of those very intelligent people on this website. I appreciate all that you bring to the table, and I respect you as the man that you are. But please understand this, I have an enormous disdain for organized Religion, as I see it as the number one evil in the world. I know that I am probably the only person on this site willing to openly say that, and I full well expect the responses from people that I get. Just because I choose to be different, not follow the crowd, and am 100% as entrenched in my beliefs as anyone here. I have never attempted to change anyone else's mind, just try to get others to look at things from a different perspective before jumping to conclusions.

It is a very tricky path to follow when having these discussions, as most people take it as a personal insult when you feel the way that I feel about Organized Religion. Up to now, I haven't seen anyone refer to their Creationist belief as their "personal faith". I can admire that person. Any person who can live their life according to their own faith as opposed to living their life according to what an outside influence tells them to believe, is the kind of person that I would want in a foxhole with me. Someone confident enough, educated enough, and committed enough, to put in ALL of the hard work and effort to learn and understand what they believe. It is the presence of those with an ulterior motive that turn my stomach when talking about organized Religion. Again, I am not trying to make anyone uncomfortable, change anyone's mind, just hopefully help you to understand where it is that I am coming from on this topic.

There used to be a man on PFT from Conway, SC who had the screen name of KROCK. His name was Kevin Childs. He was a JV coach at Conway, and he was a minister of his own church. He and I became very close friends over time. He attended Wofford, as did I. We spent weekends together at the Beach and discussed Religion quite a bit. I even attended a couple of his services. I asked him why he sought me out, and his answer was so that he could further educate himself by learning how those with differing beliefs thought about, and approached things in life. I actually had several very lengthy conversations with him when my younger brother passed away. He helped me immensely. He never tried to change my mind about how I felt, he only was curious about how I saw certain things. He also educated me about some things. My point is this, being different, holding different beliefs, does not preclude anyone from being friends, showing respect, and trying to be a better person.

For everyone who chose to participate in this thread, I say a respectful "Thank You" for taking the time and making the effort, to listen, to teach, and to learn. Hopefully we can all have and show more respect for each other and not have to feel uncomfortable or offended by every word said. I know that PFT got waaaay out of hand and turned a bunch of people off. This site has done a very good job of moderating those kinds of things. Football is fun and we are all here because of that fact. Good hearted ribbing is to be expected. Please do not mistake that for disrespect or a personal insult. As I said in another post, there is not a single one of you that I wouldn't help in a second, if asked and I was able. All of my neighbors would attest to that. Knowing where we all stand on this topic, knowing that everyone here has there own reason for their beliefs, and knowing that we are all in this place because of that, let's all please put this to bed, call it all talked out, and hopefully move on to another great season of Football. Thanks.........Alan

penguin you may not ever read/see/look at this, but this is all that I ever said on this thread to @decav.

"I'm no missionary, just barely a Christian. I can't tell you what your faith will be like, only what mine is.

When it comes to salvation, it is simple. God has a gift in his open hand reaching out to you and you can accept it or reject it. Nothing else. This is the free will of God's plan for you. He is a loving Father with a no frills gift, and you can take it or reject it; the choice is yours.

There is huge difference between 'the church' and 'your faith'. The church is an institution. Your faith is the relationship you have with God.

There is not more pure and beautiful thing than faith. You aren't coerced into it, you aren't forced into it; you simply step in and choose it. You don't need a priest, pastor, or preacher. You don't need a building, pew, or alter. You don't need a Bible, catechism, or brochure. You only need 2 things:
1- Repent of your sins
2 - Accept God's son Jesus' life and death as your Lord and Savior

I can't talk you into it; I can't talk you out of it. You have to choose or reject it. Which ever way you fall, the Gift is always there."

At no time did I inject denomination or creed. All I did was explain my faith and then you interjected into our conversation; from which my response was:

"@penguin this post wasn't directed at you specifically, but apparently it touched you. I'm glad that it did.

We've been through this on the other board. We've bounced around these questions you've got. Again, just as I told @decav ; I can't talk you into accepting the gift and I can't talk you out of accepting it. That is the beauty of God's free will.

You can ask away. I'm no theologian and don't proclaim to be. I just have a loving relationship with my Lord and Savior, and through Him I've grown closer to God.

I'll be sure to pray for you. God, please bless the penguin."

and so forth from there.... as you have asked to put this discussion to bed, I will. But know this I pray for you each day for God Mercy on you.

[DeCav]

Look at that Slick, we’re slippin. Neither of us had the last word.